Guests on this program were:

• Lynn Redgrave
• David Cross
• Henry Jaglom
• Jerry Mathers

Bill's Opening-

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: Thank you, folks.

[ Applause ]

Well, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. And a grateful nation watches as Linda Tripp testifies. Have you seen this? Finally, this Ken Starr jury seems to be coming to a conclusion, because they had their big witness, Linda Tripp, today. We don't really know what she said. We do know that she spent five days and over 100 hours with prosecutors, preparing for her testimony. And it seemed to pay off, because every time she would answer a question right, Ken Starr would give her a lump of sugar. So I --

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Yes, this grand jury that he has convened, they are -- they want to go home. They have been there for 22 weeks now. These people left their jobs, whatever they had -- 22 weeks, and you know what they get for their trouble? $40 a day, $3 transportation money a day and an 8 x 10 glossy of Ken Starr, signed "Keep on truckin'."

[ Laughter ]

Now, of course, President Clinton, the object of all this, he is on official business. He is in, today, Shanghai. He is being Shanghaied but he is in Shanghai right now.

[ Laughter ]

And you know, he went on the morning radio -- they're called "Shanghai Today," a morning radio, morning zoo, I guess, show, where he took questions. He gave a brief speech and then he gave away satellite technology to the tenth caller.

[ Applause ]

Well, there's a big brouhaha among the Republicans now because of their comments about homosexuality. There were so many who've come out in the last few weeks, and Jesse Helms added fuel to the fire yesterday. He said -- and I quote -- he said, about homosexuals, he said, "They start by pretending it's just another form of love. It's sickening." That's what he said. And homosexual groups shot back today. They said, "Hey, if Republicans are so sickened by what we do, how come they have such a big stick up their ass?" I --

[ Cheers and applause ]

I kid all people, I --

[ Laughter ]

Homosexuals and Republicans. Well, and finally, scientists -- a panel of -- get this. International scientists from all around the world have finally given a report on UFOs, 'cause this concerns so many people. "The X-Files" is out and so forth. And they said there is absolutely no evidence that aliens were ever on this Earth, and furthermore, if they ever were, it's doubtful they would want to have sex with William Shatner. So --

[ Laughter ]

Hope that puts it to rest.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Satirized for your protection, thank you.

Panel Discussion-

[ Applause ]

Bill: All righty, let us meet our panel. His new movie is "Small Soldiers." His TV show is "Mr. Show with Bob and David," David Cross. Yes.

[ Cheers and applause ]

How are you, funny man? The critically acclaimed director of "Baby Fever" and "Eating." His new one is "Deja Vu," Henry Jaglom. Henry.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Wow. Look at that. Look at that, you both wore the --

David: Hats.

Bill: It's crappy hat day.

[ Laughter ]

The first ever male spokesperson for Jenny Craig, and the author of "And Jerry Mathers As The Beaver," Jerry Mathers.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Hey, Jerry.

Jerry: Hey, Bill, how you doin'? Good to see you.

Bill: Nice to see you. She is the star of stage, screen and the new Showtime series "Rude Awakenings," Lynn Redgrave.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Lynn: Hi, Bill, how are you? Good to see you.

Bill: Sweetheart, thank you.

[ Applause ]

Okay. All right. Well, how many of you know that there is a pregnant person running for Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts?

Lynn: Yeah, we know. Yeah.

Bill: You do?

[ All talking at once ]

See, this panel keeps up on the news. Well --

Henry: We like this. We love it.

Lynn: I liked it.

Bill: You like the idea of a --

Henry: I love it. I can't imagine -- why, is there a question about this?

Bill: Well, yeah, I mean, she's pregnant. She's going to be Lieutenant Governor.

Jerry: Why are you bringing it up?

Henry: Yeah, it seems so strange.

Jerry: I mean, how hard is it to be a politician? What do they do anyway that would be so tough that she couldn't raise a baby while --

Lynn: Well, why do they look on pregnancy as some sort of illness, or having the baby --

[ All talking at once ]

Henry: I can't imagine anybody could say --

David: Bill, answer all these questions, we're after ya!

Henry: This is not a controversial subject.

Bill: It is a controversial subject. Well, first of all, they go after every politician for every single little peccadillo and physical problem that they ever had.

Henry: This is not a physical problem.

Jerry: When you're a politician for either making people pregnant or being pregnant, we'd be in a lot of trouble.

Bill: That's -- that's --

[ Laughter ]

A different case, Beaver. We're talking about someone who has to campaign 18-hour days, a lot of time on her feet the whole time. And then if she gets elected, we're talking about either being --

Henry: That's not what makes a person a good candidate or a good governor or Lieutenant Governor or political figure, how hard they can physically campaign, I mean, somebody -- then Roosevelt wouldn't have made a good President because he was in a wheelchair. I mean, according to that, physical limitations are not what determines whether somebody's good or not. It's how much money you can raise.

[ Applause ]

Bill: But -- yeah.

Lynn: Her opponents are concerned that she's not -- since the Republicans are for family values, that this is not showing family values, is that right?

[ All talking at once ]

David: It's about the child's welfare. It's not about her. It's about the kid.

Henry: What a wonderful family value.

Lynn: But then, she can take the kid with her and like, move -- can you imagine how society's going to change if she got in, and she takes her baby with her and she takes it to her meetings and she takes it to all her sessions and she breast-feeds.

Henry: Like real life.

Lynn: What a fabulous thing it would be. Suddenly, all those people --

David: I smell a sitcom.

[ Applause ]

Lynn: No, it would be, it would be fantastic.

Jerry: But you found out what happens when you try to do that.

Lynn: Yeah, I know. I had to change the situation, didn't i?

Jerry: Yes. You lost the series.

Lynn: I lost the series and I lost a lot of money, but by God, it changed things in California. They actually have day-care centers in studios now.

David: They are concerned with her --

[ Applause ]

They -- people have brought up, when is she going to breast -- have time to breast-feed the child. And I think that's really ridiculous. You have to breast-feed whenever the child wants it, you don't have to make time. Yeah, it's like, you know, getting upset with Jesse Helms going, "When are you gonna," you know, "Find" -- "When are you gonna find time to pass your bowels?" You know, 'cause that takes a while.

[ Laughter ]

It's probably the same amount of time it takes for her to breast-feed.

Lynn: Well, also, you can breast-feed while you talk and hold a meeting. But you shouldn't pass your bowels and things while you're having a meeting.

David: No, you should, that's my point!

Lynn: I think you shouldn't because, you know, it's kind of noisy.

Bill: The question is, I mean, we live in this world where we want to believe that you can have everything. And I guess this is what this woman believes and some members of our panel do, too. But don't careerism and motherhood collide at some point?

Henry: Sure, they do.

Bill: When you're the Lieutenant Governor, you preside over the state Senate, you have weeks of budget battles that go on until midnight.

Henry: Women are running huge corporations who are pregnant.

Bill: But is that right?

Henry: Of course it's right. Why not?

[ All talking at once ]

Henry: Most men --

Bill: Because life is about choosing. That's why it's not right. Because it's not good for the child.

Henry: Who says it's not good for the child? According to what --

Bill: Well, the child is left alone.

Henry: How do you know that he's gonna be left alone?

Bill: Because you have to do one or the other. There's only 24 hours in a day the last time I looked.

Henry: So, the child can be right there with her when she's working.

Bill: The child could be right there?

Lynn: Yeah, the child can be right there, certainly for the first year and a half.

Bill: "Honey, go back to sleep, we're going to pass the Bill in a minute."

Henry: Can you tell me anybody who's against -- are any of the people here against her running?

Jerry: I can see no reason why she shouldn't be able to run. I mean, and there's also nannies. I mean, there -- if she has things that she has to do, places she has to go, she can hire a nanny in that position. She can --

Henry: I can't imagine who would be in opposition to it.

Bill: I -- you can imagine me.

Henry: Really?

Bill: I am in opposition to this because I --

Lynn: Yeah, I can imagine you. I can definitely imagine you in opposition.

Bill: Because I think life is about choices which we have forgotten in this country, that you have to make choices sometimes. You can't always have everything.

Lynn: But should all women who run not be pregnant, not have babies? Should only single women run?

Bill: No, but if --

Lynn: Or women who don't want children?

Henry: Or maybe no women. Maybe it's easier then just to say to women --

[ All talking at once ]

Bill: I'm saying motherhood is a hugely important thing, and being Governor is a hugely important thing. Sometimes you have to choose between the two.

Henry: There's no evidence in the history of the past 50 years, since women started working, that being a mother in any way inhibits the capacity to do a specific job.

Bill: That's a bunch of bull.

[ All talking at once ]

Bill: What about the school shootings?

Jerry: What about the fathers?

Bill: What?

Jerry: You feel the father can't take care of the kids? I mean, is she married?

Bill: That I don't know.

Jerry: Well, why can't the father take care of this child while she's being the Lieutenant Governor?

Bill: Well, that's --

Henry: How did school shootings come up? Could somebody get back to school shootings? No?

David: No.

Henry: Nobody wants to get back to school shootings.

David: I think the issue is that she's pregnant, which means that she had sex, which is wrong.

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Henry: I think you're on to something now.

Lynn: I think it's because she's Republican and had sex, 'cause Democrats have sex, right?

David: Impossible!

Henry: They don't have sex.

Lynn: But Democrats don't have --

David: Dirty, dirty, dirty whore.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: But do you agree with what I'm getting at?

David: I understand what you're saying. And it's really about the welfare of the child, that's what you're talking about.

Bill: Right.

David: And whether -- I don't know exactly. I don't know, I don't think it's -- you can dismiss it easily and say, "Well, the kid could be right there." 'Cause that's just not feasible. That's not going to happen.

Lynn: The kid can be there an awful lot. I don't know what you mean by that.

Henry: If the woman is at home, and taking care of the House, theoretically, and cooking and cleaning, the child is also not being attended to every second. The child is there.

Bill: Okay. It's -- I gotta take a commercial. We'll come back to this.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right, we were talking about the pregnant Lieutenant Governor. But we got on to kids and whether they're they're best suited by a mother who's there or who's not. And of course, in "Leave it to Beaver," in that era, the mother was always there.

Jerry: Definitely.

Bill: Definitely.

Henry: But that was a male fantasy created by white men about the fantasy of what was on tele -- what the life in America was like.

Jerry: It wasn't necessarily a fantasy. Most of the women had come back, they'd been working during the war, but they were back in the home.

Henry: They behaved the way that they behaved in "Leave It To Beaver"?

Jerry: They may not have vacuumed with high heels and pearls, but they vacuumed.

[ Laughter ]

Henry: Do you think they were that happy? Do you think they were happy in this role of being in the kitchen, basically, and staying home?

Jerry: I think some women were. I think some women feel right now feel that if they could do that, they would be very happy. But the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Henry: It was a total -- excuse me?

Bill: But it's not an option for many, because of economics because they have to work.

Henry: But the implication was, of those shows, was that they were happy. That's where women were happy, being at home, in the kitchen.

Bill: Two-thirds of people in this country think that women are better off if they stay with the family. So it's not a fantasy. It may be a fantasy in Hollywood, but it's not a fantasy in the real --

Henry: No, no, we're not talking about whether they're better off. We're talking about whether they're happy not working. Whether women want to do nothing else.

Bill: Who isn't happy not working? I would love to be not working.

Henry: Well, you don't -- that's not true.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Women were not -- women were, for hundreds of years, women were not given the option of working. And they were not allowed to do anything productive besides stay at home. That is not to invalidate the value of family.

David: Women are, you know, put into sweat shops and women have been working constantly.

Henry: I'm talking about middle-class white women that's represented on the kind of TV shows in the '50s that we grew up on, that totally diseased our minds into thinking that life was gonna be some kind of unrealistic dream, where --

[ All talking at once ]

Jerry: But you know, those shows -- those shows are not documentaries of the '50s. Those are situation comedies.

Henry: But they represented what we were supposed to think was the family ideal.

Jerry: But it's not a documentary.

Henry: I grew up on those shows.

Jerry: Okay, but they're very contrived. And you're a director, and you know that when you write a script, you put the people together. It's much easier to have the mother at home if you want to run the family around it.

Henry: They try -- what they do now, which is exciting, is they try to tell the truth about the way life is.

[ All talking at once ]

Henry: There's more reality on "Seinfeld" or "Friends," in terms of the way people deal with things, like --

Bill: Reality? Like you met a bubble boy once in your life.

[ Laughter ]

Henry: I'm not talking about --

Bill: Oh, give me a break. There's no reality.

David: That is baseless.

Henry: You can pick anything apart that way. I'm talking about the fact that the basic theme of that kind of show that we grew up on in the '50s had nothing to do with the reality of the complexity of our lives.

Lynn: No, but Henry, it doesn't necessarily mean that the women who were at home were unhappy. They didn't -- not all of them had options, and a lot of them, I bet, were happy and it was only maybe later. You know, not everybody was so unhappy.

Henry: It wasn't just the women being unhappy. There were -- that was a world, a sanitized world where everybody had little, superficial problems where there were no deep anxieties --

Jerry: We had a show on alcoholism, we had a show on divorce, we had a show on international relations. We had a show on smoking. Those are -- you know.

Henry: Okay, the fact that you can point to specific shows --

Jerry: Well, that's what you just said, that you can't break it down.

Henry: On the whole --

Jerry: Any show you can find parts of --

Henry: But on the whole, there was the --

Bill: I don't know. You're out there in the world. Do you know a lot of women who really want to work?

Lynn: I know a lot of women who like to work, and I like to work. I love to be at home and I love to work. And I'm lucky 'cause I can do both.

Henry: It is difficult to do both, and you're very right, that there's a serious diminution of the value of being at home. And nobody is implying that's not a valuable, respectable thing to do. But there are many people who have to have the option of being able to do something else, just like men have the option. And that's all that --

Bill: But that's not what we're --

Henry: Yes, we are, Bill.

Bill: This whole thing started about options. We're saying you have options. You can be pregnant or you can be the governor. But, I mean, to try to do both at the same time really is unrealistic.

[ All talking at once ]

Bill: And you said that it probably is realistic. You think it's realistic, but it's not. As usual, the panel is wrong. We have to take a commercial.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right, we were talking -- I don't remember what we were talking about.

Lynn: What were we talking about?

David: We were talking about kids.

Lynn: You said we were wrong, we said you were full of it, and that was kind of it.

Bill: And don't you think kids, like, have ruined everything for adults now? Because the parents of today hide behind the kid card. They play the kid card. President Clinton does this. Every issue has to be "Because it does something with the children, with the children," because parents really don't want to do the job of parenting. So they lay it off on the government and us. And we can't do anything fun that's adult because it might affect the kid.

Henry: Like what?

Bill: Okay, like Thalidomide.

Henry: What? Wait a minute, wait a minute.

David: I just had a -- I was at a big Thalidomide party last night.

Henry: No, don't do that.

David: I was --

Bill: Like smoking.

Henry: Like smoking's fun.

Bill: Like smoking. They said well, you know, we shouldn't smoke because it encourages kids to smoke. We want to stop the teens from smoking.

Henry: You think it's bad.

Lynn: I think that's a good thing.

Bill: I think it's bad when kids smoke, but I don't think it should stop everyone else from smoking, no. I don't think you should hide behind children because of what you want to do as an adult.

Jerry: But if you've made a mistake, all you're doing is saying, "I've made a mistake, and maybe I can go back now and teach my children not to make that mistake." If you're killing yourself with a cigarette --

Bill: That's your choice.

Jerry: That's your choice. But if you know you're dying, you say --

[ Applause ]

"Gee, I don't want my kids to die of lung cancer."

Henry: You're getting applause for "That's your choice." I mean, there's something very disturbed about this.

Bill: You disturbed about that? That seems to be what American was founded on, which we have forgotten.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Henry: It isn't a right.

Lynn: America was founded on what, on smoking?

Henry: No, it's founded on the right to destroy yourself.

Bill: People being free. The right to destroy yourself? Yes.

Henry: But your smoking also destroys me.

Bill: It doesn't.

Henry: If you blow smoke in the air next to me, it does.

Bill: No, I won't. I won't.

Henry: Then you should be able to smoke, you should be able to go in a room with other people who like to smoke, close the door and smoke.

Bill: Well, that's called a bar. And they've outlawed it there.

[ All talking at once ]

Henry: Well, they shouldn't. I think they shouldn't have. You should be able to go in a smoking room, but we don't want people to start smoking, do we?

Jerry: And when they reach the maturity of 18, then they can start.

Bill: Okay, but they're --

Henry: We don't want them to start. We want to educate people to be smarter than we were.

Jerry: He's saying that they shouldn't at any time.

David: But you shouldn't legislate that they can't, that we can't smoke, to prevent --

Henry: Of course not, nobody's suggesting that.

David: Well, you can't smoke in bars --

Bill: Of course people are suggesting that, and they are legislating it.

Henry: Nobody is talking about prohibition of smoking.

Bill: Why don't you read the paper?

Henry: Prohibition of smoking? Where?

Bill: Yes, they're talking about making it a drug. David Kessler, the head of the FDA, talks about --

Henry: It is a drug. Well, it is a drug. That's not prohibition. It is a drug, you can get other drugs. You can get cigarettes. What's wrong with that?

Bill: Well, you can get them now.

Henry: If you show that you're an addict like you clearly are, you can go to the --

[ Laughter ]

Bill: I don't smoke.

Henry: Oh, you don't smoke?

Bill: No, I don't smoke.

Henry: So you're just defending an issue of personal liberty here.

Bill: I'm talking about freedom, which apparently doesn't mean a lot to you.

Henry: So freedom to show your children that they can destroy themselves --

Bill: I don't have children. Why should I --

Henry: Maybe that's part of the issue.

David: But it is, it is that. It isn't just the fact that --

Bill: "Part of the problem" is what you really wanted to say.

Henry: No, I didn't say that.

Bill: But that's what you were thinking. My problem is that I don't have kids.

Henry: No, I don't feel that way. I feel that it's maybe the reason that you're not sensitive to this issue of children and smoking.

Bill: You're not sensitive to the issue of freedom and being an adult.

Henry: I don't see what freedom has to do with the ability to destroy yourself. I don't understand that. Why can't people --

David: Freedom -- to me, freedom is just another word for "Nothin' left to lose."

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

I'm gonna put that on a T-shirt.

Henry: Do you want people to be able to go around shooting up heroin?

Bill: If that's what they choose to do.

Henry: In public?

Bill: In public? Why would you do it in public?

Henry: Well, then, why would you smoke in public?

David: But heroin's different than cigarettes.

Jerry: -- Prohibition, is there anything that you think that a person shouldn't be able to do in this country?

David: So is fatty food, so is sugar, so is --

[ All talking at once ]

Henry: No, no, no, you can't compare, you can't compare.

Bill: Not as long as it doesn't --

David: Yes, I can! Yes, I can.

[ Applause ]

Henry: No. No, you can't.

Bill: Not as long as it doesn't hurt another person.

Jerry: Well, they say that secondhand smoke hurts other people.

Bill: Well, first of all, that's a red herring. Second of all --

Henry: What do you mean it's a red herring? People die -- stewardesses and -- are suing. The incidents are incredible.

David: What about alcohol?

Henry: But alcohol is not catching.

Bill: And what about pollution?

Henry: You can't catch somebody else being drunk.

David: What about pollution.

Henry: But you can catch the smoke.

David: Well, you can get hit by a drunk driver.

Henry: Pollution is a good answer -- yes, it's just like pollution.

David: Wait, what happened to me?

[ Laughter ]

Lynn: We have to try to restrict pollution.

David: I had a valid point.

Lynn: What was your point?

Jerry: What was your point?

Henry: I couldn't see it under the hat.

Bill: Go ahead.

David: You're not one to -- all right.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Come on, Henry, take it off.

Henry: Can't do that.

David: I did. All right, anyway. And he's an American and that's his free choice. Keep that hat on. But it's affecting my children.

Henry: My cigarettes are in the hat.

David: Oh, okay. I'm -- you say you can't equate -- oh, I was saying that you can feel the effects of somebody else drinking. You said it doesn't -- it's not catching. And you're right, it's not contagious. But you can have an alcoholic father, stepfather, mother, you can have an alcoholic teacher, you get hit by a drunk driver.

Henry: You try to protect children against that, don't you?

Bill: Henry, I'm so over time. I have to take a commercial.

[ Applause ]

Nick V.O.: Join us tomorrow when our guests will be Pat Boone, Alexandra Paul, Larry Miller and Monica Crowley.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right, I only have enough time to plug Jerry's book -- I forgot to hold it up when you came out. "Jerry Mathers As The Beaver," which is as American as apple pie.

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