Guests on this program were:

• Canibus
• Bob Odenkirk
• Stanley Crouch
• Lisa Rinna

Bill's Opening-

[ School bell rings ]

Teenager #1: I hate chemistry. Did you hear about Bill and Monica? I heard they did it.

Teenager #2: Bill and Monica? No way!

Teenager #1: Way! They didn't actually do it, do it. He like Pee Wee Hermanned all over her dress.

Teenager #2: Ew!

Bill: Hi, Sara, hi, Tammy.

[ Applause ]

Teenager #1: And who are you?

Bill: I'm Biff. I'm in your class. I'm another teenager.

[ Laughter ]

See, nose ring.

[ Laughter ]

I got one in my ass, too.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #1: Okay. Well, well, did you hear about Bill and Monica?

Bill: Did I hear about Bill and Monica? Does Paula Jones stuff her bra?

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #2: But do you believe it?

Bill: Yeah! They've been going out since like, forever.

Teenager #2: Well, when Monica's mom finds out, she's so grounded.

Teenager #1: Oh, no, no. See, her mom knows and she's cool with it. Yeah, she's like even gave the dress to her.

Teenager #2: Oh, my God!

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Boy, I may only be a sophomore, but that strikes me as wrong.

[ Laughter ]

And perhaps the culminating blow in a vast right-wing conspiracy.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #2: Whatever.

Teenager #1: Oh, you guys, Monica is so dying right now. I mean, just a couple months ago, she was like "Bill is the coolest! And he's the most powerful guy in the world!" Well, now, she's like, freakin', because she told Linda, right? And Linda's all like, "Oh, my God, you did it with Bill?" And Monica's all like, "Yeah, I'm doing it with Bill!"

[ Laughter ]

Well, then Linda is all like, "I'm telling Ken."

Teenager #2: Ken, the hall monitor?

Teenager #1: No, Ken the doll. Yes, Ken the hall monitor.

Bill: Same thing. Neither one's got a wiener.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #2: I just can't believe that Linda. I mean, she's such a narc.

Teenager #1: Yeah!

Teenager #2: Yeah, I mean, she tells Ken. Now Ken is telling everybody.

Bill: Yeah, he turns everything into a federal case.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #1: Yeah. And I heard Bill was like, "I don't even know Monica now."

Bill: Yeah. That's what she gets for dating a senior.

Teenager #2: Oh, shh! Here comes Ken.

All: Hello, Kenneth.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #1: Dork.

Teenager #2: Closet case.

Bill: That guy couldn't get laid on the Internet.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #3 (Ken): I heard that.

Teenager #2: Well, I got to go. I've been late for gym all week and Coach Reno is going to kill me.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Yeah. I've got to go bang my French teacher.

[ Laughter ]

Teenager #1: Oh, oh, I'm late for a school shooting. Oh, no, here comes Linda! Let's go.

Teenager #4 (Linda): Hey, everybody!

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Don't go. I'm just like you. I wonder what they were talking about. Oh, never mind. I got it.

Panel Discussion-

Bill: Thank you very much. He is the Emmy-winning star of "Mr. Show with Bob and David," narrating his fourth season on HBO, one of my favorite shows. Bob Odenkirk is right over here.

[ Applause ]

Bobby, how are you? Good to see you. He's an award-winning columnist for "The New York Daily News." His newest collection of essays is "Always in Pursuit." Stanley Crouch.

[ Applause ]

Stanley. Always a pleasure to have you here, sir. He has rapped with L.L. Cool J and Mike Tyson. His solo album "CAN-I-BUS" hits stores September 8th, Canibus.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Canibus: How are you doin'?

Bill: Welcome aboard.

Canibus: Nice to meet you.

Bill: Thank you. Nice to meet you. And one of the stars of "Melrose Place" and the girl with something extra on the cover of this month's "Playboy," Lisa Rinna.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Hey, mom. Congratulations.

Lisa: Thank you. Thank you.

Bill: Okay. All right. Well, it feels awfully good to get that ring out of my nose. But, you know, when I was hanging out with the other high school kids, we were talking about this issue that's going on in, I think it's Kansas, where two high school students, their names are Summer and Chastity, ironically. They're single moms. They're in high school, but they had kids. They got pregnant. And they were thrown out of the National Honor Society. And, of course, they're suing because what else do people do in America when they don't have exactly what they want except sue? And I'm wondering if that's appropriate. If you have a child, should you be in the National Honor Society?

Lisa: Why not?

Bob: No. Because people in the National Honor Society don't get laid.

Lisa: Oh, come on!

[ Laughter ]

Come on!

Bob: It's jealousy. It's just jealousy. And, you know, I was in high school and I --

Lisa: You never did it, right, never?

Bob: I got bad grades and I didn't get laid.

[ Laughter ]

Lisa: Okay.

Bob: And these women achieve both!

Lisa: Well, so they should be in the honor society. Why not?

Stanley: But what should they be honored for? Babies and books?

Lisa: Why not?

Stanley: Oh, babies and books.

Bob: They were able to do both. I mean, isn't that great?

Stanley: To have a baby and do well in books.

Bob: Yeah!

Lisa: Why isn't that okay, though?

Stanley: So they should call it the B&B society.

Lisa: Why isn't that okay? They're saying --

Bill: Because it's called "The National Honor Society."

Lisa: Right.

Bill: Is it an honor to get knocked up in high school?

[ Laughter ]

Lisa: Well, you don't necessarily want to get knocked up in high school, but they did. They have a baby, why should they be punished for that when their grades are good? They're honorable people.

Bill: Because if you're -- if you're starting a society and you're putting the word "honor" in it --

Lisa: It's not okay to be pregnant? To get pregnant and have a child, even though you're --

Bill: Well --

Lisa: Okay. I don't know. What do you think?

Bill: It honors -- I mean, the National Honor Society is about intelligence. I think --

Lisa: You're not intelligent when you're pregnant and you have a baby?

Bill: Well, I mean, smart people now how to avoid it.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bob: You guys --

Stanley: Yeah, but, no, no, no.

Bob: Listen, come on, let's face it. Your hormones are going nuts.

Lisa: Well, your hormones are going nuts anyway. I mean, whether you're pregnant or you're a teenager, right?

Bill: But isn't it a sign of intelligence to avoid pregnancy if you want to?

Stanley: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

Bob: Yeah, but, come on, if you do happen to get lucky enough, is my point --

[ Laughter ]

-- To have sex in high school -- and I'm speaking from my own personal experience here.

[ Laughter ]

And you also --

Stanley: Your experience is definitely not representative of what's going on.

[ Laughter ]

Bob: Okay. Maybe not. Maybe not.

Stanley: I'm sorry to say, it's not.

Lisa: They're saying premarital sex is not right. And then you can't be in the honor society. Okay, so nobody in the honor society has had sex?

Bill: Premarital sex and sex in high school is two different things.

Bob: Who said they did it in high school?

Bill: Well, they're in high school.

[ Laughter ]

Lisa: Oh, come on! Didn't you do it in high school? Did you do it in high school?

Bill: No. Well, I didn't get pregnant.

Lisa: I know, but did you have sex in high school?

Bill: Yes, I did.

Lisa: Okay.

Stanley: What kind of a conversation is this?

[ Laughter ]

That's what I want to know.

Lisa: Who cares?

Bill: Right. Okay. Well, I mean, look, I like loose women as well as the next president.

[ Laughter ]

But, I mean -- Canibus, your thoughts?

[ Laughter ]

Your name is Canibus, you must have a thought on this.

Canibus: I mean, I mean, the girls should, you know, it's not fair. It's not fair. But if they're fighting so hard to get into the honor society, they might -- you know, why should they want to be a part of something that doesn't want them to be a part of them? They should go do their own thing. I'm sure you got -- they can start their own society.

[ Laughter ]

'Cause it happens to a lot of women. It happens to a lot of women. It's not -- it's not -- you know, it's not just those two.

Stanley: I don't think they had the same grade point average, though.

Bill: No, they had high grade -- 3.9.

Stanley: No, I mean the other ones. They would be different for most of the other ones. That would be a problem. See, one's got a 3.7 and one's got a 3.9. The people that they would be gathering together with them, I don't think they would have the same kind of grades. So they'd have to probably -- probably just have to be about having babies.

Canibus: It's just unfair. I mean --

Bill: Gotta listen to the man. Right?

Canibus: But the world's not a fair place.

Bill: You got to give him his props.

Canibus: First of all, I'm not a woman, and secondly, I'm not pregnant. So really, like that has nothing to do with my everyday life. Like, that right there is sort of -- it doesn't really matter one way or another to me. You know, and I plan to have --

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Okay.

Bob: Let's talk about something that we all care about.

Lisa: There we go. That you care about.

Bill: Next, is a commercial. We'll come right back.

Bill: All right. We were talking about pregnant high schoolers. And I'm sure many people would say they got that way because they didn't have the proper role models. Now, you're here tonight, Canibus. I thought we'd ask this about rap music. 'Cause rap gets criticized an awful lot for being bad at being a role model. They glorify violence, they glorify sex, they call women bitches and hos. And lots of other terrible things.

[ Laughter ]

And I'm wondering, the question is, does rap -- do artists like that have a responsibility to stop glorifying things that they shouldn't be glorifying?

Bob: Well, it's interesting that you ask me that --

[ Laughter ]

Stanley: As a brother --

Bob: Rap music that some people have done, like your Canibus or your Vanilla Ice, they're all in the same -- I thought --

Bill: Vanilla Ice?

[ Laughter ]

He's not really that popular anymore.

Canibus: First of all, my name and Vanilla Ice's name does not belong in the same sentence.

[ Laughter ]

It doesn't even belong in the same paragraph.

Bob: That's the joke, man.

Bill: Yeah. He's making a joke, he's a comedian.

Bob: I shouldn't have jumped in, but I don't feel qualified to talk about rap. And it's just because I'm white, it's 'cause I'm extremely white.

[ Laughter ]

Stanley: I thought you were speaking as a black man.

Canibus: He talked about -- when we were in the back, he talked about like, some of his favorite artists. And you are qualified to talk about -- you might not know like a lot of the intricate things.

Bob: No, I don't.

Canibus: You know what I mean? Like, you probably couldn't answer the question as to what exactly does rap glorify entirely? You know, 'cause if you break it down and say it just glorifies sex and violence and so forth and so on, there are a lot of music -- there are a lot of musics that are made by rappers that do glorify that. But then there are also different types of music.

Bill: Well, we're talking about the bad kind.

Canibus: Well, I mean, I don't want to stand here and talk about the bad kind. 'Cause I don't necessarily make the bad kind. You know what I mean? I make good music also. And when I say good music, I don't mean music that will make you dance, I'm talking about music that involves philosophy and it involves, you know --

Bill: What about bitches and hos? You say that?

[ Laughter ]

Canibus: Well, I have used the word bitch before.

Bill: In a song?

Canibus: In a song, yes.

Bill: Well --

Canibus: But I call males and females bitches. You understand what I mean?

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Anybody can be a bitch. You know? So I don't discriminate as far as -- don't get me on that one.

[ Laughter ]

Too quick for that one. I'm too smart for that one.

Stanley: No, that is an open word now. Anybody can walk in the door and be a bitch. That's right.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Yeah.

Lisa: Good, I'm glad to hear that. I had no idea. See what I learned on this show?

Stanley: But see, the problem -- the problem that I see it in, it's not the people who are doing something else, it's the fact that people will say that this has no effect on people's behavior, right? As long as we're talking about black people, then it's -- we don't know if it has any effect on behavior. But for instance, when Michael Jackson had that record and he had that little phrase in there that says "Jew me." And then suddenly, right? They have to pull that record back and take that off. Right?

Canibus: That's deep. That's deep that you said that.

Stanley: Now, what I mean is -- now all of these recordings in which black people have been encouraged to shoot people, smash people upside the head, et cetera, et cetera, as long as it's, as they call it, a black on black, then it's a question as to whether or not it affects behavior. As soon as it suggests that people might focus on another group of people, whom we have seen suffer because of what came at them through mass media and Germany during the 1930s, then suddenly we have to start thinking about the lyrics and whether or not they may have bad social effects.

Bob: Don't people bring up the black-on-black violence and rap lyrics all the time?

Stanley: That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the argument initially was we didn't know whether or not these kinds of things had any effect on behavior. But as soon as --

Bob: We don't know whether that has effect on behavior either. We just know it's racist.

Stanley: Oh, it has an effect on behavior.

Bob: And do you feel black-on-black violent lyrics are racist?

Stanley: Well, first thing is --

Bob: If a black person does it, can it be racist against blacks?

Stanley: Well, see, I don't --

Bob: Is that even possible?

Stanley: I don't even think that's the issue. I think the issue is that -- is that when you use -- see, the racist term is black-on-black crime. 'Cause there is no such thing. It's just crime. 'Cause there's no white-on-white crime. Your not going to say, "Well, today we had a white-on-white crime, where a white guy shot another white guy." Or "We had a woman-on-woman crime. A woman shot another woman." That doesn't happen. So once you decide to put black people in the category where you have a term like black-on-black crime, I think that's racist.

Canibus: I can tell you -- I know what you're saying.

Bob: So are you saying I said something racist?

Canibus: No, you're not racist.

Stanley: Oh, you wouldn't know.

Canibus: Listen, what you were talking about --

[ Laughter ]

-- Was a qualifier, right?

Stanley: Mm-hmm.

Canibus: All right. Good. Listen --

[ Laughter ]

You was talking about like Michael Jackson. And when he said the word about the Jews, he had to take 10 million records off the shelf.

Stanley: Right.

Canibus: 'Cause I was talking about that earlier on. Like just a week ago we were talking about that. What it is is that he used that term, right? All these companies, these major labels, they're owned by Jews. You see what I mean? So he made that comment and that term, they can make 10 million records get recalled. Do you understand? Now, if a rapper goes out and calls a bitch or a ho, whatever, whatever, bitches are not in power. You understand?

[ Applause ]

If they could, they would.

Lisa: So bitches aren't running the record company.

Canibus: No. So that's why. I mean, the only --

Bob: Yeah, I'm just confused.

Canibus: It's simple. What you're saying is simple. It's just that whoever's in power, you can't insult who's in power. They'll ruin you. You know what I mean? That's all that is.

Bill: So the Jews are bitches? Is that --

[ Laughter ]

I'm going to take a break. And we'll try to sort this out. I don't understand.

Bill: Okay. Well, it is August. And this is the month that we'll pass the anniversary of unfortunate killing of Lady Diana. And they want to put a memorial now of the exact spot where she was killed. They want to extend -- I'm not kidding about this -- the pillar that she hit above ground so it goes through the tunnel. And that will stand as a monument, the actual thing that killed her, they want to make a monument -- I'm not kidding about this.

Lisa: Like "X marks the spot"?

Bill: "X marks the spot."

Lisa: That's sick.

Bill: You think that's sick?

Lisa: I think it's sick.

Stanley: No, it's French. It's French.

Bill: French? Why is that French?

Stanley: I mean, the French always come up with something dumb.

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

They have a long 50/50 history, extraordinary brilliance and serious stupidity.

Bill: Right.

Stanley: This is one of the stupid ones.

Bill: Okay.

Stanley: You know, I mean, beside the fact -- this is the thing I was wondering about. Lady Di, as they called her. Now, here's a woman who goes on the BBC, right? She's got two sons who have just started public school. Goes on the BBC and starts talking about a sexual relationship that she had with somebody other than their father.

Bill: Right.

Stanley: When they're going to public school. Then she gets elevated into being some kind of a saint. They had people drawing pictures of her with wings.

Bill: Well, that's certainly the question --

Stanley: Yeah, I was trying to figure out -- I know Clinton must wonder --

[ Laughter ]

"How come I can't get it like that?"

[ Laughter ]

Bob: He needs to hit a pillar. He needs to hit a pillar going about 80.

Stanley: You think it's the pillar?

Bob: Yeah. He'll be an angel, too.

Stanley: You say that's all you need, is the car crash?

Bob: No, I think sometimes when people get killed tragically, they get praised a little.

Bill: Right.

Bob: Just because people feel sorry for them.

Bill: Yes.

Bob: But the pillar is just going to sit there? Isn't it in the middle of traffic? Isn't there traffic up --

Bill: They're extending the pillar. They're extending the very pillar that she hit above ground, above the tunnel to stand as a monument to, I don't know what.

Stanley: Are they gonna put lights on it? So the helicopters and planes won't hit it?

[ Laughter ]

Bill: It's not the Washington Monument, Stanley.

Bob: They're going to put a plaque on it that says, "Look out. Pillar."

[ Laughter ]

Canibus: I think that like, you know, the Vietnam War, they didn't put the memorial over in Vietnam. They put it in the United States, even though most of our soldiers were lost over there. So if it's okay with the family, the families involved, then if they want to put it up, they can put it up, but it has to be okay with the family.

Bill: But surely you understand why we didn't put the monument in Vietnam.

[ Laughter ]

Canibus: We wanted 'em here.

Bill: Yeah.

Stanley: No, they put one in Vietnam. The Vietnamese.

Canibus: Of course, but our soldiers were lost over there and we put one here. And, I mean, it's --

Bill: We live here.

[ Laughter ]

Canibus: That's not the part of it I was talking about.

Bill: It's so much easier to get to.

[ Laughter ]

Canibus, good name.

Canibus: Right.

Bill: I understand it now. No, go ahead.

Canibus: No, what I was talking about was the fact that it's a list, a big list of all the people that died.

Bill: Yes?

Canibus: So if it's okay with the families for it to be there, then it can be there. Do you see what I mean?

Bill: Yeah?

[ Laughter ]

Canibus: So as far as Di's concerned, if it's all right with the families involved --

Bob: -- With her family.

Canibus: Yeah, then go ahead.

Stanley: I don't think they came up with that idea, though. That sounds French.

Bill: I don't think so, either.

[ Laughter ]

Right, Stanley has a problem with the French. Okay. We've got to take a commercial. We'll be right back.

Announcer: Join us Monday when our guests will be -- Hector Elizondo, Mimi Kennedy, Karen Finley and Terry Jeffrey.

Bill: Yeah. We only have a couple of seconds. But we were looking at your -- it's a beautiful photo spread. But I have to say, you know, really, only a couple of these pictures do you even look pregnant.

Lisa: Really?

Bill: Really. Do you think that's fudging it?

Lisa: No.

Bill: I mean, look at that. Do you look pregnant there?

Lisa: Aah!

[ Laughter ]

Well, no, I don't look -- you don't have to look pregnant in every picture --

Stanley: -- To be pregnant.

Lisa: You don't have to. No.

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