Guests on this program were:

• Swoosie Kurtz
• Richard Kind
• Monica Crowley
• David Cross

Bill's Opening-

Bill: Thank you, folks. Thank you very much. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. And wow, I'm glad you're in a good mood today, because, you know, the world is falling apart.

[ Laughter ]

I don't know if you know this but our stock market dropped 357 points today. That's --

[ Scattered groans ]

See, now I'm talking money. They're sorry.

[ Laughter ]

All because Russia, they say, because the Russian situation is -- Boris Yeltsin may or may not have resigned. They don't know. But their ruble is in a free fall. And their stock market is just out of this world. And apparently in Russia, the investors over there are beside themselves. The problem is it's hard to kill yourself by jumping out of a potato line. That's --

[ Laughter ]

[ Light applause ]

No, please. And the other problem is that Clinton is supposed to visit Boris Yeltsin in less than a week. He's supposed to go to Russia right from his vacation. And Yeltsin does not know how to get out of this problem. He called Clinton today. Clinton said, "You should seriously start thinking about getting sober enough to bang your secretary." Because that's --

[ Laughter and applause ]

Well, Clinton came out of hiding today. I'm not kidding. He has been sort of hibernating because of you know what.

[ Laughter ]

Very hard to see. They didn't see him for about a week and a half. Well, today he came out of hiding and made a speech. The problem is the intern also came out from under his desk.

[ Laughter ]

And saw her shadow. So we're going to have six more weeks of investigation.

[ Laughter and applause ]

Now, the president made a speech at an auditorium about school safety. The administration said this was their way of saying they were hoping that the scandal was behind them and we're returning to normalcy. Yeah, right.

[ Laughter ]

No, it's not going to happen. Because it was so unfortunate. This guy cannot get away from his problems. He talked to the kids and afterwards all the kids wanted him to sign their sex-ed textbooks. Which you know --

[ Laughter ]

Also a survey came out today. 44% -- listen to this, 44% of the American people think the president should see a therapist. That can't be good news to him. And listen to this. I love this. 84% of the people said oral sex counts as sex. The other 16% think it's just a really great way to say, "Have a nice day."

[ Laughter ]

All right. Thanks for coming. It's all been satirized for your protection.

Panel Discussion-

Bill: All righty, let us meet our panel. She is a former Nixon adviser. Her new book is "Nixon in Winter." Monica Crowley. Monica.

[ Applause ]

There you are. Nice to see you again, young lady.

Monica: Thank you.

Bill: Thank you for coming back. The show is "Mr. Show with Bob and David." The David is David Cross. Yes, sir.

[ Applause ]

How are you? He is one of the fine stars of "Spin City" right here on ABC. Richard Kind. Richard.

[ Applause ]

Nice to see you, sir. And she has won two Tonys and an Emmy. She's up for another Emmy this year for guest starring on "ER," Swoosie Kurtz. Swoosie.

[ Applause ]

Hello, beautiful. Thank you always. Yes. Okay. Well, we've been talking a lot this week about terrorism, as everybody has on the news, because of what happened last week. And we're trying to get this guy Osama Bin Laden. And there's an interesting confluence of events as there often is with movies. There's a movie coming out in a couple of weeks called "The Siege." Maybe you've seen the trailers from the movie. It's with Bruce Willis. And --

Monica: Denzel Washington.

Bill: Denzel Washington, okay.

Richard: And Annette Bening.

Bill: And Annette Bening? Yes, okay.

[ Laughter ]

She -- now, Arab groups have started protesting this already. I love this when they haven't even seen the movie. Because what it is about is about in the movie terrorists set off a bomb. They're Arabs in New York City. And what happens, we round them up. That's what happens in the movie. And they say, the guy from the head of the group said, "We're hoping the movie would be redone with the bombers not as Arabs."

Richard: We should get the lesbians from "Basic Instinct."

[ Laughter ]

Swoosie: Yes.

Richard: I think is what we should do. That's what we should do.

Monica: And the mother from "Psycho."

David: He said he just wanted the movie redone with the terrorists not as Arabs but Jews would be a good idea he thought to put in there.

Richard: We could have them three dimensional.

David: That is so -- it's ridiculous.

Swoosie: Ed Zwick is a very tasteful guy. This guy did --

Bill: Who is?

Swoosie: Ed Zwick.

Bill: Ed Zwick. Ed Zwick's movie, he made "Glory." He made --

Swoosie: "Glory," he did "Thirtysomething." I mean, he's a very tasteful guy. You know, I think --

Bill: And "Courage Under Fire," yes.

Swoosie: "Courage Under Fire," right.

David: And Annette Bening.

[ Laughter ]

Swoosie: It's a form of censorship. It's a form of censorship, I think, when people protest something before they've seen it or read it. It reminds me of the Terrence McNally play that they're doing now in New York, "Corpus Christi," about the gay Jesus. And everybody's going, "This is disgusting." And say, "Have you read it, have you seen it?" "No."

David: It's also, it's even worse because as I understand it, it's -- the movie takes a look at the American reaction to this. And it kind of slams jingoism.

Bill: Yes.

David: And, you know, reactionary thinking. Which is exactly what they're doing. They don't have all the information. It's ridiculous. It's ignorant and --

Bill: It would be stupid to portray the bombers as Swiss or Canadian. Because --

[ Laughter ]

Monica: Exactly right.

Bill: But --

Richard: I was going say --

Bill: No, go ahead.

Richard: Bin Laden has become a stereotype. Because he's a Bond villain. I mean, he's this evil genius, hundreds of millions of dollars, lives in a cave. Thunderball's cave I believe.

[ Laughter ]

Instead of lycra suits they're just, you know, all the men run around in, like ants.

Monica: And this is reality. This is reality.

Richard: And he's been trained by CIA agents as assassins. And now he's a Bond evil genius, and Clinton is James Bond.
Pussy Galore.

[ Laughter and applause ]

It's my guess.

Bill: Interesting.

Richard: But he's now going after the evil genius.

Bill: Right.

Monica: And this is reality. I mean, we're talking about a movie here. This is fiction. This is entertainment. Every good story needs a good villain. In reality we have Bin Laden. In this movie we have these Arab terrorists and so forth. But, you know, terrorism cuts across the board, across all kinds of ethnic lines. We have terrorism in Ireland. We have homegrown terrorism here. Timothy McVeigh. But the reality is that the disproportionate amount of terrorism that's directed at the United States comes from radical elements in the Arab world.

Bill: Exactly.

David: But even if it wasn't, then if you show an Arab as a terrorist, first of all, it's based in reality. Some semblance of reality, of course. And then even if there were more Swiss terrorists and -- one day -- but --

[ Laughter ]

It's still -- I mean, this guy is making a character, and it's fiction.

Bill: But, Dave, if you agree that, as she said, there's a disproportionate amount of Arab terrorists and therefore you can portray them that way in the movies, if that is the reality, what do you think about what they want to do in airports, which is called "profiling," which is if you look like an Arab terrorist you get thrown out of line and strip searched and the whole --

David: That's totally wrong.

Bill: When then you're contradicting yourself.

Richard: I disagree with you so much.

Monica: Me, too.

Richard: Look, it's going to be prejudice is prejudice. Okay? And because Arabs have lately been terrorists, we are now -- in fact, I feel horrible, honest to God, I feel terrible because I now see an Arab and I look at him, I think how my grandparents must have looked at the Japanese in the '40s. And not every Arab is a terrorist.

Bill: No, very few. Very few.

[ Talking at once ]

Bill: Very few percentage of Arabs are terrorists. But among terrorists, a large percentage are Arabs.

Richard: So how does the moral man like me justify looking -- honestly, I flew on a plane the other day. There was a Middle Eastern man with a red-haired caucasian wife, two kids. And I go, "What lengths will they go to?"

[ Laughter ]

David: Wait. How am I contradicting myself?

Bill: Because you're saying in the movie it's okay to portray them 'cause it's real. But in real life to portray them is not so good.

David: No, I'm not talking about portraying them. I'm talking about starting this kind of police state fascist kind of checking everybody.

Monica: There's something to be said for preemptive action, for taking precautions, for establishing safeguards so that -- I mean, this is the price we pay to live in a free society. I've had my luggage rifled through at the airport. I was in Washington, D.C., this weekend. They opened up my luggage because they thought my blow dryer was a gun. I'm like, "Do I look like a terrorist?" But you have to take these precautions.

David: There's a big difference -- there's a huge difference between checking out where they could hide a bomb and profiling people based on how they look. There's a huge difference there.

Bill: But if it's okay in the movies, why is it not okay in life?

David: Because this movie -- I'm saying it's okay to make this movie because this movie is also showing, as I understand it, the entire side of it. They're showing this in a bad light.

Bill: Richard, I have to cut you off. We're late for a commercial. We'll come right back to you.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right, we were talking about Arabs at the airport. Interesting related story. The federal government is suing a concession stand or a restaurant at Midway Airport in Chicago because they let go a woman, an Arab, who wanted to wear the, I don't know the term, it's the headdress. I'm sorry, I don't know the term. I should. Okay, she wants --

Richard: Head scarf.

Bill: Head scarf. Exactly.

[ Laughter ]

She wants to wear this. And they're saying, "Hey, we're an overpriced, rip-off business. We've got a certain look."

[ Laughter ]

Swoosie: Is that exactly what they said?

Bill: Not exactly. And they say, "You can't do that." And she said, "Well, it's my religious belief. I have to wear this." And they're saying, "Well, you know what? Tough luck." Who do you think is right?

Swoosie: I think there are certain religious practices that have to be practiced at home. I mean, if you're a doctor or a nurse and you're over a patient on an operating table, you can't have a crucifix hanging. It might bang the patient in the head. You know, knock them out even further.

[ Laughter ]

"Oh, sorry about that, sorry." You know, you gotta put it inside your shirt. In the Army, you have to wear uniforms. I think a company has a right to say if it's a safety to health factor.

Monica: Exactly. There are two main issues at work here. One is the free market. And one is freedom of speech, freedom to express or want to express your religious beliefs. And this woman wants to express her religious beliefs by wearing this head scarf, this headdress. And that's fine, that's her prerogative. But the business owner also has a right to say, you know, "You have to wear this uniform. And if you choose not to for whatever reason you can seek employment elsewhere."

Swoosie: They didn't make this rule to exclude her.

David: I thought she applied for the job. She had the job?

Bill: I think she had the job and she wanted to wear the head scarf.

Richard: Did it get in the way of work? I mean, do they wear a visor?

Bill: That's what she said. It wouldn't really get in the way of work. She's saying that, you know, it just really is about prejudice. It's not really whether it's a hair net or --

Swoosie: No. I think that's going to far.

Richard: It's about looks.

Bill: It's about looks.

Richard: You don't want a 350-pound person behind because they're not gonna cut. People are gonna say, "Oh, no, I gotta diet. I'm sorry, I forgot." You know, you want somebody who's appealing behind there. And I think that's horrific. That's horrific. It's like a pregnant woman on a soap.

Swoosie: No, it's not the same.

Monica: You're talking about uniform. It's the business owners prerogative to request that you wear a uniform that presents a certain image to the customer.

Richard: And she will.

David: Well, she's not going to have the complete uniform unless she fashions the headdress into a visor like --

Richard: Get a visor. Look like Jackie Kennedy. What the hell? I mean, just get a big thing.

Swoosie: Then somebody in the Army can say, "Well, I want to wear that uniform. I want to wear jeans." Then isn't that prejudicial to them? How come just because it's about her religion?

Bill: Doesn't everyone really wear a uniform? Don't we all have to wear a uniform? I don't want to wear this. I don't wear this when I'm off this show.

Swoosie: I'd rather be in my sweat pants now or my jammies, quite honestly.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: I'd like to see you in them.

[ Laughter ]

Monica: But you want to project a certain image on television or to your employer, to ABC, whatever. And they have a right to request that of you as well.

Richard: So if the woman does wear that then that's offensive to me? Or I think of --

David: That's not the issue. The issue is she is not wearing the uniform, as stupid as that uniform may be, it's the company's prerogative.

Richard: But she is, this is just an addition. She puts a visor on over it, right?

David: No, I don't think --

Bill: Wrong.

Richard: Can she put a visor on over it? That is a safety feature or protects the food? If she is willing to put the visor on then she's got a case. I'm serious.

Swoosie: I agree with you there.

Bill: She's a head case. All right, we have to take another commercial. We'll be right back.

[ Applause ]

Bill: Okay, one of our crack staff got me the name of the headdress. It is a hijab. I didn't know that. H-i-j-a-b. Hijab. Sounds like an insult, doesn't it?

[ Laughter ]

Bunch of hijabs come over here and make --

Swoosie: Hijab to injury.

Bill: Let me ask this. This is an interesting panel. I want to ask you about this, because one of the things President Clinton will be remembered for -- one of them, obviously we know what the big one is -- is ending welfare as we know it. And over half the states have a system in place now where if the kids don't go to school, if they are very truant, we're talking about young kids, not high school kids who can beat up their parents, young kids, if they don't go to school and the parents are on welfare they will dock your welfare money. That's called "Learn Fare." And some people --

Richard: How long has this been in existence?

Bill: I think probably a couple of years 'cause the states have been experimenting with welfare while the federal government was sitting on their ass as usual.

[ Laughter ]

But what they were going to do is, if your kids are chronically truant, they will dock you some of the money you get for welfare. And the opponents obviously say, "Well, now your kids don't go to school and they're hungry." But --

David: And it's also -- it's not -- I just don't think it's fair to blame the parents and punish the parents, 'cause it is punitive, if a kid is constantly not, you know, being truant and doesn't understand the ramifications. If it's a young kid he doesn't understand.

Monica: The reason the child doesn't understand the ramifications is because the parents aren't doing the job of imposing discipline on these children and forcing them --

Richard: I'm agreeing with a very strong Republican.

Monica: Yeah, yeah!

[ Applause ]

Bill: Oh, Lord.

Monica: When the welfare program was originally begun it was meant to be or intended to be a temporary fix. A temporary handout to those in trouble, in need until they could get back on their feet. How are we going to ever break that kind of cycle of dependency if the parents are falling down on the job and not forcing --

[ Talking at once ]

Swoosie: It's not the parents.

Richard: Okay. If some other program that I will say right now, 'cause I think this is a win/win situation, but what if before you take the money away, it's obvious the parents probably didn't go to school as well, either, is what I'm guessing. Okay? That may be a prejudiced statement. But the parents were probably not very good students. Send the parents for -- for every day -- hold on. Wait, wait, wait. For every day that the kid misses send the parents for an hour to learn how to be a better parent. Have a psychologist.

David: From who? Who's going to tell them how to be a better parent? What I'm saying is if these kids --

Richard: Set a program up that will teach the parents. What if the parent's hitting the kid says, "Get to school." But there are other ways to teach a kid that they are ignorant of.

David: But, Richard, there are so many "What ifs." There are so many potential possibilities and scenarios. I'm talking about a kid who doesn't -- isn't getting it. And he's --

Bill: But he's not getting it because of the parents.

Swoosie: It's not the parents.

Bill: Why shouldn't the parents be responsible for making the kid get it? Isn't it the parents' fundamental job to make the kid get it?

Richard: Absolutely.

[ Applause ]

This is reminiscent of --

David: Bitch.

Richard: This is reminiscent of punishing the parent when the kid commits a crime, which should not be done. The kid hasn't committed a crime. We're talking about sharing responsibility.

Monica: And the parents should be role models. I mean, Lord knows the children can't look up the to the president to be a role model these days. The parents are immediately there.

Bill: All right.

Richard: Now you've gone and done it.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: We always have to sneak that in don't we?

Monica: Role models? There aren't any. And also, if the state is disbursing funds --

Bill: Like these kids would be looking up to the president anyway?

[ Laughter ]

An 8-year-old kid in Harlem, "Damn, Clinton let me down."

[ Laughter ]

I gotta take another commercial. We'll be right back.

[ Applause ] Announcer: Join us tomorrow when our guests will be -- Howie Mandel, Meredith Brooks, Kelly Rutherford and Horace Cooper.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right. We were talking about learn fare, where the parents on welfare get docked if the kids are truant from school. Dave, my brave bitch --

[ Laughter ]

You were all alone.

David: Apparently. I just think that I don't think you can -- if a kid has a mind of his own and the kid is screwed up and for so many reasons a kid could be screwed up and not understand how important it is, and he or she is getting back at their parents, like, in a rebellious way and refusing to go to school and --

Bill: You think that's why they're doing truancy, to get back at the parents?

David: Well, they don't like their parents. They don't, I mean --

[ Laughter ]

this fictional person --

Bill: They may like their parents. I think the problem today is that parents are too liked by their kids. Parents are afraid to be parents. They want to be buddies. They want to be pals. They want to be friends.

[ Applause ]

Monica: And that doesn't work.

Bill: They don't want to be disciplinarians.

Monica: That doesn't work because it doesn't instill any discipline or any respect.

Swoosie: Like Richard said, if it's true the parents didn't go to school, then we gotta break that cycle.

[ Talking at once ]

Monica: One way to break the cycle is to have the state mandate that the children go to school. And if they don't that those funds will be docked.

David: What if the kid's not going to school 'cause he's getting the crap beat out of him? What if the kid's not going to school because he's getting the crap beat out of him?

Richard: But that's not what we're talking about.

Monica: Maybe they'll stop beating him up.

Richard: But if a kid's skipping school, I think we're talking general terms, if a kid is skipping school it's 'cause he doesn't want to go to school.

David: Why? Why doesn't he want to go to school?

Bill: If he was getting beat up he'd want to go to school.

Richard: It's boring. It's eating vegetables. We don't want to eat our vegetables. So we push them away. And our parents make us.

David: What if you're in a housing project and you -- I mean, what if you're just scared? What if you're not -- I mean, there's horrific things happening in public schools. There's a numbers of reasons.

Monica: Then it's up to the parents to go meet with the principal, talk to the teachers, try to, you know, fix the situation somehow.

David: They're too drunk. They took all welfare money they were drinking 40 ouncers.

[ Laughter and applause ]

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